The Tasting of "the Indoctrinator" - Follow-up thread

[Shawn, the Beer Philosopher]

A few months ago, five adventurous homebrewers from the Aleuminati set out on a quest to brew a collaborative beer. And brew it, we did. All using (basically) the same recipe - a Belgian-style dubbel - we each brewed our own take on the style and swapped bottles to do a fun, non-competitive side-by-side tasting. Scheduling conflicts (read: life and geography) prevented us from scheduling a formal tasting session among the group, but four of us found ourselves online New Year's Day. We broke a few open and shared our impressions of each brew "live" on Twitter.

We missed you, Ray!

This thread is set up to share our subsequent thoughts of each beer with the rest of the group. I, for one, only sampled 1 of 5 brews on New Year's Day, having already been into a couple of beers earlier that day. At about 7-8% ABV, the Indoctrinator can catch up with you pretty quickly! I sampled Preston's (UselessBrewing) version and I'll share my additional thoughts as a comment below.

I hope the remaining four brewers will do the same with each beer below. We're all big boys, and can take constructive criticism as well as praise, I'm sure, so have at it! I plan to sample the remaining four beers in the next several days - likely one per day.

Cheers! It was a pleasure brewing with you guys and we'll definitely do it again!

[Gentleman Villain]

Very cool. I'll look forward to seeing what the results are.

[Shawn, the Beer Philosopher]

So far, I've sampled Preston and Matt's "Indoctrinator" beers. Both were impressive in their own ways. Preston's version (at 7.05% ABV) I found to be slightly dryer than Matt's (at 7.7% ABV) and perhaps a touch more phenolic. Matt's Indoctrinator accentuated the malt profile a little more and came across slightly sweeter, with subtle fruity esters, throughout. This may be due to the fact that Preston's version seemed to have a moderately higher carbonation level too. The higher carbonation brought out more of the spicy phenols and dry finish in Preston's, while Matt's was a bit warmer (not "hot") and played up the softer, caramel-like malts (the Special B, I'm sure).

The Belgian dubbel style allows for a great deal of variance within the style parameters (as set forth by the BJCP). These two examples show us what subtle differences in brewing technique and/or specialty ingredients can evoke in a similar base recipe. Very nice. One, a fine moderately dry and spicy ale ... the other a caramel-sweet (but not cloying) dubbel. Good work to the both of you! Both are at the high end on the ABV scale for most commercial examples (between 6.5 and 7% ABV), although this is really arbitrary, since many are higher than this (ex. Westvleteren 8) and the style high end is all the way up at 7.6% ABV.

Now that leaves Rob's and Ray's to sample. Look for those two in the days to come! As far as my own (at 7.2% ABV), I'll let my esteemed colleagues be the judge. I'll only say that, of the three I've tried, mine seems to carry the highest ester levels to my taste - probably due to the nearly 70 degree fermentation (both primary and secondary). I think, too, I was the only one to use a White Labs Trappist yeast strain (though this has little to do with it, I think). My own is maybe too estery ... a Bavarian dubbel, I suppose!

[Ray Grace]

Sorry I missed you guys, I'll have to start tasting. Unfortunately on New Year's Day I was just recovering from the stomach flu, so no beer for me on New Years Eve.

[Shawn, the Beer Philosopher]

Ray Grace said:

Sorry I missed you guys, I'll have to start tasting. Unfortunately on New Year's Day I was just recovering from the stomach flu, so no beer for me on New Years Eve.

Sorry to hear that, Ray. I have saved yours for last and plan to sample it in the next day or two. Look forward to hearing your comments on the others soon! Hope you're feeling much better!

[Shawn, the Beer Philosopher]

Had a chance to try Rob's version last night. Nice. Well-balanced, I thought. This one had the stronger ester profile similar to my own. I let my wife have a sip (she's pregnant, so she can't really imbibe like she'd like to) and she agreed. She loves ester-heavy beers, so I wanted her to assess too. Easy carbonation, and not a lot of head retention in my sample, though this really didn't detract from the beer in my opinion. Ample carbonation to avoid any potential cloying effect.

Rob added raisins, I believe, in the secondary (right?). I didn't really get anything decidedly "raisiny" in there, besides the subtle raisin-esque characteristics inherent in the style's profile. Subtle, for sure, but that's probably what he was going for.

I enjoyed!

Oh, and Rob gets extra "points" for cork-finishing his bottles ... 750ML none the less!

[Rob DeNunzio]

Glad you enjoyed it! I'm actually tasting yours right now. It's got beautiful carbonation (not that I'm jealous or anything) and what I think is a great ester profile. I'm not shy about liking the high temp fermentations on Belgian abbey styles, so I think it works well here. Des and I compared notes and agree that it's food wold relative would be one of those raisin and brown sugar snails you get a nice pastry shops. Not too sweet, but definitely on the pastry side of the beer spectrum. Very nice!

My notes on UselessBrewing's version, cribbed directly from the Twitter feed, read like this:

beautiful head on the UB, sticking nicely to the glass too 2:03 PM Jan 1st from web
getting grape and clove on the front of the UB 2:05 PM Jan 1st from web
candy aftertaste on the UB making me feel like i just had some toffee or peanut brittle 2:07 PM Jan 1st from web

Can't wait to try the next two...

The Beer Philosopher said:

Had a chance to try Rob's version last night. Nice. Well-balanced, I thought. This one had the stronger ester profile similar to my own. I let my wife have a sip (she's pregnant, so she can't really imbibe like she'd like to) and she agreed. She loves ester-heavy beers, so I wanted her to assess too. Easy carbonation, and not a lot of head retention in my sample, though this really didn't detract from the beer in my opinion. Ample carbonation to avoid any potential cloying effect.

Rob added raisins, I believe, in the secondary (right?). I didn't really get anything decidedly "raisiny" in there, besides the subtle raisin-esque characteristics inherent in the style's profile. Subtle, for sure, but that's probably what he was going for.

I enjoyed!

Oh, and Rob gets extra "points" for cork-finishing his bottles ... 750ML none the less!

[Shawn, the Beer Philosopher]

Very glad you enjoyed too, Rob. Pastry ... I'll take it.

Rob DeNunzio said:

Glad you enjoyed it! I'm actually tasting yours right now. It's got beautiful carbonation (not that I'm jealous or anything) and what I think is a great ester profile. I'm not shy about liking the high temp fermentations on Belgian abbey styles, so I think it works well here. Des and I compared notes and agree that it's food wold relative would be one of those raisin and brown sugar snails you get a nice pastry shops. Not too sweet, but definitely on the pastry side of the beer spectrum. Very nice!

My notes on UselessBrewing's version, cribbed directly from the Twitter feed, read like this:

beautiful head on the UB, sticking nicely to the glass too 2:03 PM Jan 1st from web
getting grape and clove on the front of the UB 2:05 PM Jan 1st from web
candy aftertaste on the UB making me feel like i just had some toffee or peanut brittle 2:07 PM Jan 1st from web

Can't wait to try the next two...

The Beer Philosopher said:

Had a chance to try Rob's version last night. Nice. Well-balanced, I thought. This one had the stronger ester profile similar to my own. I let my wife have a sip (she's pregnant, so she can't really imbibe like she'd like to) and she agreed. She loves ester-heavy beers, so I wanted her to assess too. Easy carbonation, and not a lot of head retention in my sample, though this really didn't detract from the beer in my opinion. Ample carbonation to avoid any potential cloying effect.

Rob added raisins, I believe, in the secondary (right?). I didn't really get anything decidedly "raisiny" in there, besides the subtle raisin-esque characteristics inherent in the style's profile. Subtle, for sure, but that's probably what he was going for.

I enjoyed!

Oh, and Rob gets extra "points" for cork-finishing his bottles ... 750ML none the less!

[Useless Brewing]

I was finishing a brew session during the tasting, so I was only sipping. (Ya right!) I may have had two or three beers prior to the tasting. It takes good beer to make good beer, right?

Each one had subtle differences and I compared my own version separately with each one.

GISBREWMASTER (GIS): tasted this one first. Opened the bottle and poured into a glass. It was a little disappointing that there was no head to speak of. The smell was pleasant and inviting. There was carbonation in the beer but the head fizzed away. The beer had some nice fruity esters accompanied a nice malty taste with a slight spicy finish on the back of the palate. There were no indications of an infection on the bottle, so I'm not sure why it did not have a head. The head issue may have been just a fluke, or a bad bottle.
Couple suggestions: I would look at cleaning practices during bottling, If not there then overall brewing process may need to be looked at, or it may have had an infection during the candi addition. If I can help, let me know.

The Beer Philosopher (TBP): This one had a nice plum smell which made drinking it a pleasure. The color was comparable to my own rendition. It was slightly sweeter/maltier than the others, not that that is bad. The head dissipated by the end of the glass, I like high carbed beers which may have helped. I think for the style it was a little low on carbonation otherwise it fit well with the style.

Ray Grace: I enjoyed this one most, maybe because it had a higher carbonation level. Nice thick head that stayed throughout the tasting. There was a nice spicy finish that accompanied smooth malty notes. The glass laced well throughout. I will note that: I drank more of this one than any of the others.

Rob DeNunzio: (Note to self: I need a Wine bottle opener when tasting Robs beer. Nice Touch!) This one was milder than the rest and had a noticeably lighter color. The differences may be that he used raisins and light Belgian candi sugar. The raisins may have also lightened the color and taste in this batch some. It is my understanding that he added the raisins to the secondary (Did you eat the raisins? I would have!) which may have taken some of the fusel alcohol from the batch lowering the ABV slightly and smoothing out the tast. Tasting the raisins would tell the story. I will have to do some research on the subject. This one was also lighter on carbonation than I preferred. It poured well (After I got the cork out that is) and had a clean finish which I was not expecting, again I suspect of the raisins.

Each one had things I liked:
Technically speaking I think Rob's batch one was the best of the bunch, based on the clean finish and the out of the box thinking using raisins.
Beer Philosopher I think had the best aroma in the bunch.
GISBrewMaster was the malt King of the bunch.
But I liked everything about Ray's batch the most. Carbonation, Head, Spicy, Malty. What can I say, It was Just my favorite.

The only thing I would add, is one bottle is not enough. The 22oz bombers were nice, but for me that's a little much and I would have preferred 2-12's. That way I could have enjoyed them in more than one sitting which may have helped GISBrew.

Nice work to everyone, and I hope I did not offend anyone.

Cheers
Preston

[gisbrewmaster]

I am not sure why i didn't get much head in this batch. I have used the same cleaning and sanitization procedures in all 12 batched I have brewed and this is the first one with no head. Most of my heads don't last very long and I am hoping to remedy that with additions of carapils. I make sure that when I wash my equipment with dish soap I make sure i rinse a few times and I swish with iodaphor solution for atleast 10 minutes. I am always up for tips so if you have any ideas please feel free to let me know.

GISBREWMASTER

[gisbrewmaster]

I am finally over my cold and am able to get full smells and tastes again. I am hoping to try one each night starting Tuesday unless my baby decides to arrive.I am pretty excited to taste these brews.

[Shawn, the Beer Philosopher]

Hey Matt, a couple things. One - I never use dish soap in my cleaning process. I've found that no matter how well I rinse, it seems to leave a bit of residual soap ... certainlty enough to adversely impact head retention, I'd think. Two - I'm a big advocate of Star San. Have you tried it instead of the iodine-based sanitizers? Again, it is a no-rinse solution, so there's no worries of leaving any behind.

Just my two cents.

Stay encouraged!

Shawn

gisbrewmaster said:

I am not sure why i didn't get much head in this batch. I have used the same cleaning and sanitization procedures in all 12 batched I have brewed and this is the first one with no head. Most of my heads don't last very long and I am hoping to remedy that with additions of carapils. I make sure that when I wash my equipment with dish soap I make sure i rinse a few times and I swish with iodaphor solution for atleast 10 minutes. I am always up for tips so if you have any ideas please feel free to let me know.

GISBREWMASTER

[Useless Brewing]

+1 on StarSan and NO DISHSOAP! That's probably what did it! There is a difference between Cleaning and Sanitizing. I would also say that the only cleaning solution I use Is OxyClean (Unscented "Yellow top"). The only thing I use Iodphor on is when I use the bathtub as a Fermenter for my ales. I add a couple caps to the water to keep the water from growing things. The fermenter has stayed in the spare bathtub for up to two weeks.
For Cleaning: I fill a bathtub up with HOT water and add a scoop of OxyClean. Add my bottles, let it sit overnight. The Lables either fall off or peel off and a scotch bright pad to remove any residual glue. Rinse well inside and out.
For Sanitizing: I put the bottles into the Dishwasher on sanitize wash (No Soap), with heated dry. I let it cool in the dishwasher.
When I'm ready to bottle I take some StarSan in a spray bottle and spray a few shots (Just in case) in the bottle swish it around, empty and rack to the bottles. No rinsing involved.

Please post what you thought of everyone's beers!

Cheers
Preston
The Beer Philosopher said:

Hey Matt, a couple things. One - I never use dish soap in my cleaning process. I've found that no matter how well I rinse, it seems to leave a bit of residual soap ... certainlty enough to adversely impact head retention, I'd think. Two - I'm a big advocate of Star San. Have you tried it instead of the iodine-based sanitizers? Again, it is a no-rinse solution, so there's no worries of leaving any behind.
Just my two cents. Stay encouraged! Shawn

gisbrewmaster said:

I am not sure why i didn't get much head in this batch. I have used the same cleaning and sanitization procedures in all 12 batched I have brewed and this is the first one with no head. Most of my heads don't last very long and I am hoping to remedy that with additions of carapils. I make sure that when I wash my equipment with dish soap I make sure i rinse a few times and I swish with iodaphor solution for atleast 10 minutes. I am always up for tips so if you have any ideas please feel free to let me know.

GISBREWMASTER