Drinking the Haterade

[Maxwell]

I'm digging the craft beer love-fest, but we should just step away from our giant group hug for a second and look at the crusty under belly of craft beer so we don't end up in denial and disillusioned. The question is: what brews do you hate on?

My response:
I used to talk a lot of smack about the pissy US macros but since I went through a recession I can appreciate cost control a bit more. I still really don't like the rot gut 40 oz stuff like Steel Reserve or St Ide's but crackheads need something to come down on. My main beef is with the fake ass crafts that just suck. In particular, Blue Moon and Gordon Biersch. Sam Adams to a lesser extent. I'm also hating on the Premium Lagers. Heineken most of all. It really tastes awful to me (not that I wouldn't drink one).

So what fills your stein of haterade?

[John LeMasney]

Right now, I'm hating on Sam Adams, InBev AB Ale, and a little joint called Jim Dundee. Jim, hang it up -- you're not crafty. However, due to the @#$%^& economy, I just myself (ashamed to say) picked up two cases of Budweiser ale, because it only cost $40. Sigh. It's not horrible, just not very great. Nice post Ciceronito && cheers. Oh yeah -- Michelob -- wtf?

[Mark Sheftick]

I was at our best beer store in Springfield and this dude was picking up a 24 of SA Winter Ale and 2 sixes of that Winter's Bourbon Cask Fetid Ale AB puts out and some other macro micro that isn't great either. One of the employees was chatting him up and the guy was explaining how he didn't really like normal beer and these were great. I wish the employee would have pointed him to the aisle with the better brews. I had a six of Flying Dogs K-9 and a six of Schlafly's Winter ESB both of which I am enjoying this season. I guess I should have said something along the lines of 'Why drink that when you could drink this?' Holiday apathy kills, my firends.

[Eli the Mad Beer Man]

Interesting how we hate on different things.

I have and always will hate on macro swill. Bud, Coors, Miller, Pabst, Heineken (and anything else that comes in a green bottle for that matter), etc. Recession, Depression, whatever... I'll drink water before I drink any of that sh*t. I'm dead serious. That's not because I'm a beer snob either... it's because all of the above (to me) taste nasty. There's nothing "good" about any of them, so why drink it?

I like Gordon Biersch and Sam Adams brew. And Blue Moon is far better than any of the macro swill. They've both been around for over 20 years and have done some great things for the craft brewing industry. There is no denying that. So I have to ask... why exactly do you call Biersch and Sam Adams "fake ass crafts"?

To me, "fake ass crafts" are the big macro boys hiding behind "crafty" brewery names and pumping out "craft beer" in an effort to compete with true craft brewers who are taking up their market share. Craft beer sales rose 17% last year. The big guys didn't crack 2%.

[Virgil G]

I didn't like Gordon Biersch when I had it, but I wasn't really in the mood for their offerings.

Some of the Michelob's are ok. I'd prefer to have other things, but when nothing else is available, I'll go with that (of course, I don't normally find myself in a place where that's all that is offered).

Everything, has at least some good qualities. Most of the time, it's just really hard to find it. If you look hard enough for the good, you'll find it, but normally, it's just easier to claim that something is horrible, instead of working for the good.

Maybe I'm too optimistic.

[John LeMasney]

What kills me about the recent Budweiser ale purchase was that at the same place there was both Nogne 0 special bomber-in-canister editions, and Mikkeller's beautiful 12 ounce 17% ABV Mikkeller 黑. Single bottles, each for $18 apiece. When you're weighing spending $40 for the month on beer because you have to, you might consider spreading that $40 a bit thinner, as the AB ale is, again, not horrible, just not craft. I still have the remnants of a case of both Hoppin Frog and Schneider and Sohn, which I'm carefully squirreling away. That was purchased in the pre-purse tightening days, where $200 in a beer run was explainable to the wife. No longer, so karma is raising its head in the form of a red eagle on a brown box. Vulture, thy name is Budweiser.

[Maxwell]

Eli the Mad Beer Man said:

Interesting how we hate on different things.
I like Gordon Biersch and Sam Adams brew. And Blue Moon is far better than any of the macro swill. They've both been around for over 20 years and have done some great things for the craft brewing industry. There is no denying that. So I have to ask... why exactly do you call Biersch and Sam Adams "fake ass crafts"?

I agree that the macro pissy yellows are a worse product than say a Sammy or Gordon Biersch, but my argument is there is a time and a place for them. (college party, slosh ball game or beer pong for example) It's the value pricing that makes up for the lack of quality imo. Especially, the real cheapys like Pabst, Keystone or Natty.

Personally, I don't like the macro-micros that toe the line. I think "fake ass crafts" was a little strongly worded, but my point is making a "craft" beer in such quantity tends to lose the focus on what I appreciate about a craft brew: originality and uniqueness. There are so many variables that go into brewing that when you standardize the process it loses those aforementioned qualities through over processing.

I think Sammy and Gordon are the biggest offenders amongst the "independents". Sierra does it with their Pale Ale but makes up for it, to me, in their seasonal offerings. These larger "micro" breweries own futures with the big agricultural producers and tend to get more standardized produce, like big grocery produce vs farmers market. It tends to be a decent quality but has less variance so you never get the amazing product (you also never get the awful product).

Blue Moon on the other hand is owned by MolsonCoors, much like Red Hook and Widmer's are partially Anheuser-Busch and now InBev holdings. The product is in my opinion more homogenized or "dumbed down". There are still some decent offerings but they pale in comparison to the smaller independents. Don't get me wrong, there are some offerings by the big boys that are really damn good. I love me some Boddington's (InterBrew) for example. And Red Hook is highly drinkable, but not a standout by any means.

The macro-micros take advantage of economies of scale in ingredient procurement and distribution but are still premium priced. This allows for a good business model (higher margins) but does not really benefit the craft drinker.

[John LeMasney]

Hard for me to hate on Sierra -- I can see why they're a part of the discussion with their standard brew, but the Hop Harvest, Celebration, and other very nice offerings really give them a little bit of a pass here.

Maxwell said:

Eli the Mad Beer Man said:

Interesting how we hate on different things.
I like Gordon Biersch and Sam Adams brew. And Blue Moon is far better than any of the macro swill. They've both been around for over 20 years and have done some great things for the craft brewing industry. There is no denying that. So I have to ask... why exactly do you call Biersch and Sam Adams "fake ass crafts"?

I agree that the macro pissy yellows are a worse product than say a Sammy or Gordon Biersch, but my argument is there is a time and a place for them. (college party, slosh ball game or beer pong for example) It's the value pricing that makes up for the lack of quality imo. Especially, the real cheapys like Pabst, Keystone or Natty.

Personally, I don't like the macro-micros that toe the line. I think "fake ass crafts" was a little strongly worded, but my point is making a "craft" beer in such quantity tends to lose the focus on what I appreciate about a craft brew: originality and uniqueness. There are so many variables that go into brewing that when you standardize the process it loses those aforementioned qualities through over processing.

I think Sammy and Gordon are the biggest offenders amongst the "independents". Sierra does it with their Pale Ale but makes up for it, to me, in their seasonal offerings. These larger "micro" breweries own futures with the big agricultural producers and tend to get more standardized produce, like big grocery produce vs farmers market. It tends to be a decent quality but has less variance so you never get the amazing product (you also never get the awful product).

Blue Moon on the other hand is owned by MolsonCoors, much like Red Hook and Widmer's are partially Anheuser-Busch and now InBev holdings. The product is in my opinion more homogenized or "dumbed down". There are still some decent offerings but they pale in comparison to the smaller independents. Don't get me wrong, there are some offerings by the big boys that are really damn good. I love me some Boddington's (InterBrew) for example. And Red Hook is highly drinkable, but not a standout by any means.

The macro-micros take advantage of economies of scale in ingredient procurement and distribution but are still premium priced. This allows for a good business model (higher margins) but does not really benefit the craft drinker.

[Useless Brewing]

As long as there are people like us who Understand what a good beer is, there will always be something for us to thumb our noses at. That being said, I tend to lean more on the optimistic side of things (Cheers Virgil). If it weren't for the "dumbed down" or "entry beer" selection I would be another BMC Drone! OK MAYBE NOT, but everything has its place. My place is to drink what I like and attempt to bring others into the Light and out of the BMC Marketing ploys! Don't get me started on Marketing! GOOD LORD do they think we are stupid! O ya, that's right. They do!

Cheers
Preston

[Mark Sheftick]

Sam Adams has market share in my land. That means I, or anyone else, can go to any local bar or restaurant and stand a good chance of being able to pick up an SA lager. It is a saving grace when the other choices are some of the tasteless American lagers or import lagers. They have achieved ubiquitousness and for that I am happy. They also have enough clout/reputation/muscle to ensure that even more non-beer bars/restaurants will carry their seasonal de jure. That is an added treat and a chance to shed a little spittle in the face of the big boys. I know I can be happy with Sam Adams when they are at the top of the selections. When I realize my stance becomes hypocritical is when I am at the bars/restaurants/stores with choice and I whine about friends/family/strangers choosing a Sam Adams over some obviousy (imo) choice. I can rely on Sam Adams to give me choice. I can rely on Sam Adams to help bring the unbelievers and unwashed into the fold. I just cannot rely on them to win my taste when I have other options I can enjoy. At least they get a thanks but no thanks. It is better than the F-off the other stuff gets.